Warning to Musicians - Internet Wedding Scam
So this is for our musician friends:
I'm miserable right now, and $2500 poorer. My band was the subject of internet fraud.
So rather than totally wallow in my own misery, I want to educate you on how it happened and how You can avoid this same problem. Because Your band may be next.
In September, we go an email for a wedding gig from "Pitt Andre". They found us through our wedding website. It was a little difficult for Andrew to work out the details with the folks getting "married". But we negotiated payment--$1500. And we would drive to Oklahoma.
We ask for a non-refundable 50% up front. So we waited and contacted and followed up with them to get payment. Finally they sent a check... for $2500. Then they called and told us their accountant sent the wrong amount. Could we send them the back the difference?
Sure, once the check clears. But before that happened. They canceled the wedding. The mother-in-law had a heart attack. They were pissed. They asked if they could have back the non-refundable money. We agreed. And after three days, the check seemed to have cleared. And Andrew sent money back via a Moneygram.
Today, five business days after the initial deposit, the check bounced. A little research revealed this is a typical scam.
So what are the lessons to be learned?
- Even in this day and age, it can take 7-10 days for a check to clear.
- NEVER send money back hastily. If they are that urgent to have their money, then tough luck.
- Even YOU can be scammed by something this stupid. So be on your guard. Lean on the side of caution to avoid losing big money.
And if you care to help us recover from this financial hit, we are accepting donations.
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posted by Marc Gunn @ Tuesday, October 23, 2007
23 Comments:
Interesting. 'Cause October Country got an inquiry about doing a wedding in Oklahoma a few weeks back; we didn't recognize the name and were busy on the weekend involved, so we declined. Guess I'm glad we did. My sympathies & good luck in future.
Casey Sledge from October Country
Even worse: it can actually take up to *30* days for a check to clear (i.e. for the funds to actually reach the bank). But due to rapid banking laws, banks usually greenlight the transaction after only a few days...and if it turns out that the funds aren't there after all, the cashier takes the hit. It's shocking that it's the innocent who gets penalized rather than the victim, but so it is...
There a ton of scams based on this; the one you guys got hit by is one of the lesser-known ones. My deepest sympathies, mate, getting robbed is a horrible, traumatic experience. I am glad to hear that you contacted the FBI, though; it may not help you recover your money, but you may end up being instrumental in putting these scumbags away for a long stretch...
This is typical of Nigerian scammers on date sites as well. To date, I've had more than $6000.00 in fruadulent Travelers Checks sent to me. (they need the money, but the bank wherever won't cash it there, so please cash and wire the money... yeah yeah...)
I've contacted the FBI... who can do very little, so they say.
:-( i'm sorry...
Don't send money back period. The overpayment scams are a common gig. I had someone try one on me (when I tried to rent a room), but I knew enough to just lead the jerk on for a month or so.
(Don't have the money, Money Mart wouldn't accept the cheque, hasn't cleared yet .... The guy claimed to be a tobacco executive from the US, but called with a heavy accent on a line that sounded like he was skyping from Nigeria).
(picture of cheque)
Hints of the scam:
Internet stranger.
The cheque was for too much.
(Just these two had my alarm bells ringing).
He wanted the room sight-unseen.
really eager to send the cheque
Didn't want to issue a replacement cheque
Insisted that I WIRE the extra money back (no return cheque).
Wouldn't give me any usable contact info.
Cheque was in a different name than his supposed company.
A US executive with an incredibly thick Nigerian accent?
Offer to send the original cheque back, and have them send you the proper amount. When dealing with internet strangers, this is the only way to deal with overlarge cheques (presuming you're even willing to continue the conversation).
If the cheque is cashed and a stranger wants a refund, wait 30-90 days to refund it. -- then send it by physical mail -- among other things, it gives police someplace to start an investigation from. Wired cash can be picked up in any country by any person with the password.
Do not expect the banks to cover your ass --- they're using everything they've got to cover their own.
I had heard of a variant of this scam -- instead of a gig, it might be about buying or selling a vehicle or just about any monitary transaction. International transactions are expecially difficult, since the money takes even longer to clear than domestically. I think I'd heard even as long as seven weeks, though you might be able to ASK your bank if what you have is really cleared or just provisionally credited.
The nasty thing about THIS scam is that it counts on people being nice. Most count on you being greedy.
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You should definitely call the cops, and my boyfriend (final year law student) says that this sounds like wire fraud, which can be a federal crime (if it's over a certain amount of money--he's not sure how much). He also says that you should report this to the Consumer Protection Bureau of the Federal Trade Commission (via FTC.gov), as they keep track of common scams.
Finally, he says If you have some kind of contact info, you might be able to sue them in small claims court--but be aware that if you hire an attorney to do this, you may quickly spend more than you lost in legal fees (though some attorneys will give you a free consultation, and tell you your legal options).
My boyfriend was reading up a bit more, and asked me to pass on this info as well.
From http://ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre40.shtm
If You Think You’re a Victim
If you think you’ve been targeted by a counterfeit check scam, report it to the following agencies:
* The Federal Trade Commission Visit ftc.gov or 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). • The U.S. Postal Inspection Service Visit www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect or call your local post office. The number is in the Blue Pages of your local telephone directory.
* Your state or local consumer protection agencies Visit www.naag.org for a list of state Attorneys General, or check the Blue Pages of your local telephone directory for appropriate phone numbers.
For More Information
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
As Robin pointed out, this scam relies on you being "nice" -- you did bow in to the pressure and agreed to REFUND the NON-REFUNDABLE deposit, however this also works because people are "greedy" -- the check was for too much money, and rather than return it and request a "proper" check, you went ahead and cashed it [umm, that would be greed...]
However, I think what you're finding out now, is that most government agencies work on the principle that now that the barn door is open, don't expect to get your horse back... ;) (or "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...")
Thanks very much for the warning, and I'm sorry to hear that the wisdom came at such a cost.
Having said that, phone the FBI. Seriously.
All good advice, but a big part of the scam is perpetrated regularly by the banks. Because of the way that the Federal Reserve processes checks, your bank knows within 2 days at the most (and that would be like from Florida to Hawaii) whether a check is good or not and could safely give you credit for the funds at that time. Any time over 2 days is gravy for the banks because they are taking advantage by making interest off of money that should have already been yours.
I would find another bank, and absolutely never refund any portion of a payment that hasn't cleared, bank's fault or not.
We just had a similar event occur, as part of a [potential] vehicle sale. The "emergency" was the death of a husband, overseas, involved in the war on terror. Fortunately, we had not accepted (or returned) any payment yet. I guess our shysters weren't as good as yours, and played the emergency card too soon.
p.s.
I'm kinda freaked out that your system figured out my name and mail address without me entering it. Either that, or this grog is stronger than anticipated.
The scammers hit up animal rescue groups too, they say they want to adopt a pet for their son/daughter/wife/husband, who's lifelong pet just died. They want to adopt the pet sight unseen, and send a check for too much money.
They also get people selling anything at all. Someone I know was selling a motocycle part, had an ad in the local pennysaver want ads. The part was advertised for $150, the scammer sent a check for $1,500. When the seller said the check was too much, the scammer said OOPS he sent too much. He asked the seller to refund the difference back. Luckily the seller thought it was weird and mentioned it to someone else who heard about scammers, and he didn't cash the check or send any money to the guy.
It's a shame innocent people are scammed like this, I wish there was a way to put an end to it.
We, of Saratoga Faire, a Celtic band in upstate NY, were contacted about doing a private party for the wife of a guy who had bad grammar, could barely spell & had an odd name. He was going to send a check for $2500 (maybe it's the same guy using a different name & tactic?) One of our band members actually felt it was a scam right away, but some of us were thinking, well, maybe he's foreign, but that's no reason to be suspicious. But just to be safe, we looked into it a bit more, contacted some of our friends, googled around the internet & found that lots of other musicians had gotten a similar letter, fallen for the scam or had almost fallen for the scam. The weird thing about all of this was that he sent so many e-mails to our other musician friends in our area & didn't bother to change the name or the location or even the style of the letter. He found our musician friends through our MYSPACE site (I guess he figured that friends in America don't talk? He guessed these Americans wrong...).
Anyway, there are also other ways to check out the legitamacy of an e-mail. Being cautious at the bank is a good way, but also contacting lots of your musician friends might be another good way. They like to target en-masse. I doubt they have a capacity to write very different e-mails with different phrasing to all of your friends.
Hope this helps to put a stop to this. We have a copy of the e-mail we received on our site. It can be found here: http://www.saratogafaire.com/scammerdipsonkoiki.htm
Saratoga Faire
www.SaratogaFaire.com
I'm sorry to hear about that . . . it's a real shame that people are preying on those who try to beautify the world around them.
There's another scam going around for music teachers. It's always a student coming from overseas to study with you one hour every day for some three weeks or so . . . they want your contact information and how much you charge. I've been told this is to apply for credit cards with your information (one of them asked me for a phone number where I "can be reached at any time" HAHAHAHA!!!!) These people can be discouraged by insisting that they send you an audition mp3 first and that you don't accept students daily or for a period of X weeks. You have to be careful, these days . . .
You should definitely contact the police. These scammers need to be jailed!
I just absolutely don't get how banks are not to be held responsible for at least a part of that... I know it's written in their 15 page rules, however what I don't get - if check is cleared, it's cleared. If it takes them 30 days to find that out - well, don't clear it for 30 days. Isn't that why they use pending for certain transactions? I understand that they face serious banking rules and regulations, but so do we. I'm sure losing 2500 isn't anything like loosing a quater.
Over the years I've had a number attempts at scammers trying to do the fake payment and requesting refunding for all sorts of reasons, usually some sort of human tragedy.
Afraid a couple of them tempted on much bigger sums that you were scammed.
Fortunately my banker is a fairly wizened sage and steered me right early on.
Being very slow to refund and not believing ANYONE I haven't met personally or who isn't at least a friend-of-a-friend saved my bacon.
I even had one fellow posing as a Miami Police Officer send a bum cashier's check.
At least you know that all through the scam you kept to the high ground and wore the "white hat."
And eventually the scammer will meet their justice.
For what it is worth I spent hours helping the police with a rare musical instrument scammer, and with their jurisdiction and resource limitations naught came of it.
May the sun never rise again on the faces of the thieves who abused you & your band so.
Notify the courier (FedEx, UPS) or Postal Service as well. If the checks went through the US Mail, that's mail fraud, and if they used a courier I believe it's a violation of their TOS (which may not actually help but makes them aware of it).
The problem with reporting these scammers to the FBI, police, BBB, or anything of that sort is that these scammers are VERY rarely in the USA. Can't prosecute someone on another continent unfortunately.
-Amanda in Austin
Hi Marc: As a subscriber to two of your podcasts, I'm sorry you got scammed. The biggest redflag on this one is the check for an amount MORE THAN what you were to be paid. This is very very typical of this sort of fraud. They send you a check for much more, ask you to deposit anyway and send them back the difference. You do (being an honest person) and in the meantime they have money that isn't theirs" the check is fraudulent and bounces. So you not only don't get your money, they've managed to steal money from you through the fake check. The scarey thing is of course that some of these checks are very legitimate looking cashier's checks. The fake check business is very efficient and real these days.
Again, very sorry to hear you fell victim to this scam.
From Ashley:
"I just want to thank you for mentioning internet scams in last week's (November 8th) podcast. I felt for you when I heard your own story about scams on craigslist. I am a college student, and therefore have no money to begin with, so therefore, I had an ad posted on craigslist for tutoring local students. No more than a week after listening to your podcast I was contacted by a man who claimed his son was moving over here from the UK and he wanted someone to tutor him for a month or more. This did not seem immediately strange as I live in a college town and we have international students coming and going all the time. Once we had things roughly arranged he said he'd like to pay me in advance by wiring money to my account. This sent up a major red flag. I told him I would like it in cash from his son when we had met, suspecting of course it was a scam similar to what had happened to you. Needless to say I never heard from the guy again. I just want to thank you for talking about it on your podcast because that mention had left the topic of internet scams fresh in my mind and did help prevent that crime from happening again.
On the note of your podcast, I love it! I always get a little excited when I see my iTunes downloading a new episode. I can always count on the music being excellent. I started listening at the beginning of this year while studying abroad in England. Needless to say, my love of Irish and Celtic music was not quite understood by my very English flat-mates. Somewhere on the map of where your listeners are, there is a little dot in the village of Falmer in East Sussex. That was me. I actually took some of your more energetic episodes with me on walks through the bridle paths around the village. I've become a fan of a lot of the Celtic Rock you feature. In all, your shows are always amazing and I am so happy to hear that there is such a wide range of independent Celtic music available.
Go raibh maith agat.
Ashley"
Wow... I heard that you had gotten scammed like that, but reading it in your blog just makes it feel so much worse... and I'm betting that you guys feel that way too. I'm sorry to hear that some jerk took advantage of you guys. You're too cool to deserve anything like that happening to you. It is a shame that someone is so desperate for money that they have to hunt around like you guys were some deer in the forest.
I'm glad to hear that you have some wonderful fans who helped with the donations and such! May the next time you are approached for an appearance at a wedding, may it be in the wholehearted, honest, and most gracious way possible. A wedding is supposed to be a time of celebration, love, and laughter - none of which this scammer truly knows anything about.
*hugs* to you both!
I'm so sorry to hear that you guys got scammed.
Damn! Not 2 hours ago my drummer calls and asks if I can do an out-of-town wedding a couple of weeks from now. Big cash payment and all expenses paid! Cool! Count me in!
Then an hour later he calls back and says his wife, the singer, checked the net and discovered it was a scam. Piss!
- the bass player
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